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conservative mind-set: generousity is chaos

 
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KimCooper



Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 247
Location: Northern California

PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 4:20 pm    Post subject: conservative mind-set: generousity is chaos Reply with quote

I sent a meassage to my political email group about AB840, a health care bill that would give single-payer health care to everyone in California. It has already passed both houses of our legislature, and is awaiting the Gevernator's signiture. He's against it, so he may veto it.
I got a reply from my most conservative friend saying if it would include illegal aliens in its coverage he is against it. I told him I thought it would be a good way to CATCH illegal aliens.
My point here is this:
One of the things that liberals have the most trouble understanding about conservatives is how much they resent that anyone should get any benefit they don't deserve -- they are often willing to do horrible things to themselves just to make sure no one gets a penny they shouldn't get. Whew!
What can we do to disarm this attitude? It is selfish, stingy, etc. from a liberal point of view, but from a conservative point of view, I think it has more to do with punishment and the enforcement of the rules, and therefore with keeping order -- avoiding chaos. Chaos is scary. Conservatives have a lower tolerance for ambiguity, they need order and control.
Discuss.



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tcanfield



Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:01 am    Post subject: Compassionless Conservatives Reply with quote

I always thought that the reason why Conservatives were against people getting benefits was because they were lacking in compassion. That was why Bush's campaign in 2000 came up with the slogan that he was a
"Compassionate Conservative." Of course, everyone realized it was an oxymoron, like "Military Intelligence". However, it did send a message that regular Conservatives were lacking in compassion, but Bush was different because Neo-Conservatives were going to show compassion. After seeing the compassion they extended towards Iraq, I think the country would be better off with an honest homicidal maniac running things. At least with a President like Dr. Hannibal Lecter, you would know that he was killing for supper rather than for ridiculous slogans like "a free and democratic Iraq".
Anyway, I always thought that the mantra of the Conservatives was the saying,"I got mine!" They are the sort who climb the ladder of success, then saw off the rungs behind them, and then say that if other people can't climb the ladder then it's their own fault. I suppose a good definintion of a Conservative is "somehow who has had success handed to him, but can't stand seeing anyone else getting handouts." In other words, welfare for the rich, but not for the poor.


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KimCooper



Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 247
Location: Northern California

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

as I learned in my recent lesson in Spiral Dynamics, there are two groups here, not one.
The blue meme folks are the conservatives: concerned with punishment, with rules (and the letter of the law more than the spirit of the law), with family and community (but defines community narrowly), revealed Truth, keeping others on the straight and narrow, appearances, stability, purpose, obedience, sacrifice for the Righteous Cause, economic freedom but personal restraints.
the Orange meme folks are the Neo-Conservatives: concerned with success and autonomy, self-interest, competition, material success, achieve results and gain influence over others, utilizing strategy and technology, the bottom line, competition....
the blue meme is community oriented, but it's a small community. The orange meme folks are the "every man for himself" type, who believes the if everyone does the best for themselves it will end up being the best for everyone (i.e. they don't acknowledge "the tragedy of the commons" because community isn't a valid level of organization.)
These two groups have made an unholy alliance. (for you colorists out there, blue and orange together make brown). They are what we now think of as "conservative" but they are pretty different from each other.
the blue meme people are the ones who resent anyone getting anything they don't deserve. The orange meme folks just resent anyone but themselves getting anything. Wink The orange meme folks are the ones with no compassion, I think the blue meme folks just have compassion for the "right" people, the in group, their own community.



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