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Kim
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:10 pm    Post subject: government ineffeciency Reply with quote

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http://operationeden.blogspot.com/2005/11/questions-on-god-and-government.html

At the above URL, Clayton Clayton James Cubitt has an article about religious groups being much more effective at helping Katrina victims than government. He questions why. As an atheist, he is heartbroken that his government, his only representative on site, is hopelessly ineffective and incompetent. He questions whether the religious people taking over the government are purposely making it less efficient to promote religion, then rejects that as far too Machiavellian to be real. There are several comments at the blog , but here is mine:

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I don't think the problem is either religion or government. I think we have created a monster: we have given corporations legal "personhood" and so, in some mysterious way, they have taken on a "life" of their own and become "persons". Though they are persons without conscience, without pride in quality, without the things that make society work. They are focused solely on profit, and are ruthless. The government was supposed to keep them under control, but they have learned to control the government instead, and are slowly (or not so slowly) taking over everything, poisoning us all with their monumental greed and carelessness. It is much like the old space operas where the robots take over and enslave the humans....only, our "robots" are economic machines instead of metal machines.
--Kim
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Here’s some more commentary and a response from me:
Sedulia said...
Clayton, I agree with you about what you are seeing. I think the two things are related, and they are related in other countries as well. For example, Islamist charities have been helping the earthquake victims in Pakistan much more than the government. In return, they take male orphans off to become jihadis at their schools, and local people have a more positive view of the Islamists than before. Islamist charities are doing this all over the Islamic world.

It's not true that government is doomed to work badly. It works badly because people choose to slight it. Here in France, where I live (I'm from Louisiana), I've seen that government-run health care that covers everyone, allows everyone to choose their own doctors, and is considered the best in the world, costs less per capita than our American non-system that leaves tens of millions, mostly employed, with no health care. The post office here delivers letters the next day, and garbage is picked up 6 mornings a week. Sure, every country has problems, but the reason government services work better in France is that government service is something people take pride in and are willing to pay for. It's probably not an accident that France is a very secular country, too.

When did that pride in our government stop in the U.S.? Can you imagine Franklin Roosevelt not taking care of Katrina victims?
7:06 AM
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Wearerofmanyhats said, in part: “Government exists primarily to perpetuate itself. Christians are called primarily to serve others. When Christians get involved in national government, with some rare exceptions, we're generally just not very good at it -- there's a clash of objectives and loyalties. Which has the greater claim on our lives -- the President, or the Eternal King? If the latter, here come your white vans. If the former, here comes the depersonalized, ineffective government you see around you.”

I (Kim) say most governments exist to perpetuate themselves, ours was designed to be different, to primarily serve others. Religion (particularly the conservative Inverted Christian religions that focus on individual salvation) in America has often become focused largely on self-perpetuation, perhaps in response. They have switched places.


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Kim Cooper
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the above was posted by me, Kim Cooper, but the new site doesn't seem to recognize me....

ok, i tried to post this, I told it I am Kim Cooper, and it said that name has already been taken. How do I tell it I'm the same Kim Cooper?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's recognizing me now.... Very Happy


I heard a speaker say that our government originally had laws about corporations that were very restrictive: like no corporation could exist longer than 23 months, and they had to have a single purpose and it had to be for the public good.
Have any of you heard this type of stuff? Where can I find some facts about it?


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kimrdhbsms
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was wrong....


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KimCooper



Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 247
Location: Northern California

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now it is recognizing me -- I started over.
--Kim


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jbartas
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Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 133
Location: Cupertino, California, U.S. of A!

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:01 am    Post subject: Proof that wingnuts deliberately sabotage government. Reply with quote

Glad it's working Kim - I'll have to yell at the bozo who runs this site Smile

But as to the topic:

Quote:
"He questions whether the religious people taking over the government are purposely making it less efficient to promote religion, then rejects that as far too Machiavellian to be real"


Wishful thinking - Religious Inverts deliberately sabotaging government from the inside is very real, and has been rampant for years. The proof is in this quote by Bill Bennett. Mr. Bennett is a famous "religious right" flack, gambling addict and bigot. This apparently qualified him for a post as Secretary of Education under Ronald Reagan. Read what he said to Reed Hundt, former Chairman of the FCC:

Quote:
At any rate, since Mr. Bennett had been Secretary of Education I asked him to support the bill in the crucial stage when we needed Republican allies. He told me he would not help, because he did not want public schools to obtain new funding, new capability, new tools for success. He wanted them, he said, to fail so that they could be replaced with vouchers,charter schools, religious schools, and other forms of private education.


Bottom line, Reagan put a Religious Invert in charge of America's Schools whose real agenda was for the public schools to fail so he could boost religious schools.

Another favorite right-wing example of the so-called government inefficiency is the money US public schools spend per student. We seem to spend more money per-student than most other industrialized countries, and our students don't always get the highest test scores. Thus, the Republicans argue, we need vouchers or other "free market" solutions to make schools more efficient.

Actually, our schools spend a huge amount of their budgets dealing with kids that are sick, homeless, don't speak English, or otherwise a burden on the system. The Private and religious schools that are sited as "more efficient" get to pick and choose their students - any kid who is troublesome or behind is rejected and dumped back into the public system. Similar dynamics apply to other countries. I visited a grade school in Seoul Korea a few years back, and EVERY kid was Korean - spoke the language, adhered to the customs, etc. No expensive language or culture issues there.

Private and foreign schools also don't have to deal with attacks from wingnut thugs like the ADF, who spends over $20 Million a year trying to destroy America's schools. And in Korea, a saboteur like Bennett would be shot (sometimes capital punishment is good). The Koreans get to spend every dime (or Hwon) on teaching.

And on your recent posting:
Quote:
I heard a speaker say that our government originally had laws about corporations that were very restrictive: like no corporation could exist longer than 23 months, and they had to have a single purpose and it had to be for the public good.


I'll look into this. While researching the Piracy meme I learned that US copyrights had originally been a sensible 15 years, instead of the absurd 100 year copyright corporations get today. Limits on duration and function of a corporation itself would be totally consistent with the founding fathers philosophy. I think there's a meme about corporate responsibility in here somewhere, but that's another topic.


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